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Author: dogempire

[1.16] Medal Balancing: All 3 heroes [Copy this link to quote]

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Bboy_Omni Post time: 2013-08-14 16:55:30 |Show all posts
Edited by Bboy_Omni at 2013-08-14 17:46
mistertam replied at 2013-08-08 09:50
WARNING WARNING WARNING!!! MATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PROPOSED                        

hey mistertam, :-) i don't really understand your math, no offence :)
are you trying to ask that zerk keep dealing same damage to moth in 1 by 1?
that's a pretty simple logic, but what come when tanking?
let's use a very basic elementary school math that i believe every LE player understand it/

if there's 4 units attacking the moth, and each medal level is +1 def, counting the medal is only lvl 6 as in your example, how much does it cut every second(counting units don't have shaman behind them)

4x6=24 damage every second,
looks little right?
times it by 60, 1440 damage :) count that only lvl 6,
60seconds too long????? (standard equal battle usually take around 1 minute, and the moth will probaly fought for 20-30 seconds) then make it half of it 720 damage, :)
720 damage saved when facing succubus=killing the succubus.

i also understand frailty gems effect, but how high is frailty chance to actually make all those 30 seconds weak effect?

each second succubus attack 3 times, 18 damage cuted every second :)

note: once again it's only lvl 6

also, for those who're not using their logic about evasion
the chance looks very high if you actually attack him 100 times in a battle, but are you serious?
are there any zerk that can take 50+ attack from succubus that has shaman and equal gems lvl? name that guy if there exist such zerk and i will stop replying to this stuff.

wanna take more example?
let's compare the survivability of top zerk vs top moth
zerk: http://www.ipsofactolabs.com/lit ... 8a5c780162e5dcf34f4

moth: http://www.ipsofactolabs.com/lit ... 58ea6f5848e52ebd3b4

both are one of the best possible hero right now, don't tell me 6k EHP different is little, thats about 68% more survivability than zerk,
you want it to be that immortal???

i want to change my zerk to moth if only i have that much money and able to leave his cool appearance.

his double block is just way too useful
Bboy aka Jpierre ingame :)
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ruflagend Post time: 2013-08-15 03:39:42 From the mobile phone |Show all posts
+1 def or +0.5 def is crazy. everybody will
change Zerk for Behe. so what's the point? if
you think that Behe isn't strong enough just
fight with guys from top 5 (or even top 10)
clans and you will see holy truth.
you don't fight hero vs hero, there are two
heroes and a lot of units. and some mages
below/above Zerk makes him crying little boy
coz he can't reach Succu.

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mistertam Post time: 2013-08-15 11:43:02 |Show all posts
Edited by mistertam at 2013-08-14 20:06

=========================
From the first MATH post, we know that if it's Hero vs Hero (moth vs Zerk), it's equal [meaning the atk and def negate each other if it's a hero vs hero matchup].
Now, let's compare troop stats
=========================

Let's say a Moth has 19 def (mine)
lv1 metal = 19 def
lv2 metal = 20 def
lv3 metal = 21 def
lv4 metal = 22 def
lv5 metal = 23 def
lv6 metal = 24 def

My footman attack is 34.9.  
The HITS to my Moth would be as follows:
lv1 metal = 8 hp loss
lv2 metal = 8 hp loss
lv3 metal = 7 hp loss
lv4 metal = 7 hp loss
lv5 metal = 6 hp loss
lv6 metal = 6 hp loss

My ArchAngel deals 53.9 attack damage
The HITS to my Moth would be as follows:
lv1 metal = 18 hp loss
lv2 metal = 17 hp loss
lv3 metal = 17 hp loss
lv4 metal = 16 hp loss
lv5 metal = 16 hp loss
lv6 metal = 15 hp loss

.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.NOW for the ZERK.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

A Berzerker with similar attributes also has 19 def.

But his ATK goes as follows
lv1 metal = 94 ATK
lv2 metal = 95 ATK
lv3 metal = 96 ATK
lv4 metal = 97 ATK
lv5 metal = 98 ATK
lv6 metal = 99 ATK


COMPARISON:
If there were 2 footman, 2 trolls, 2 mages, 2 WRs,
it would take the Moth of 83 ATK approx 50 seconds to beat them.
The Moth would take considerate damage but would live.
With the SAME line-up, it would take a ZERK 38 seconds to beat them
The Zerk would also live.

The point here is that the MOTH would need to take an additional 12 seconds of Attack Damage while the Zerk is already done and won. 12 seconds is a lot of time.  The Zerk could be done with my wall by the time I get done with his troops.  The Moth can still die.  He's not indestructible since as you can tell from the above graph that every +2 def makes a difference.  A +1 def doesn't do squat!!!!!
Good to remember that The Zerk attacks faster and walks faster.

Defense isn't that big in the overall picture where it warrants obsession.  I think it's better than HP, but it's not THAT overwhelmingly powerful like +1 ATK for the Zerk.  

Formula for defense remember is:
(TroopAtk - HeroDef)/2 = Damage (round up)

^%^%^%^%^%%^
As a sidenote, MOTHS and ZERKS are completely diff heros other than Melee attack.
Moth is just a tank.  That's about it.  He has no other attributes other than having 1,000 more HP
Zerk is a succubus rusher.  He can rush the succ fast. Not only that but he stops 1 square short since he has a +2 range attack.
On the wall, if there is a shaman/priest in front of the zerk, NO PROBLEM. Chop away!

Comments

Bboy_Omni  :-) you're not zerk user, so you don't know does actually zerk medal any good, he is jack of all trade but master of none sadly, he is still my favorite though.  Post time 2013-08-16 17:01:14
Bboy_Omni  can he rush succubus if there's mage around her? no, aid def user always have mages around them. :)  Post time 2013-08-15 19:33:36
Please don't attack my other accounts. I don't like it.

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Sandrovicii Post time: 2013-08-16 03:34:15 |Show all posts
1 defence for the behemoth? A little much, and the succubus just gets crap :l The berserker gets overpowered with +1 attack
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TheKittehCP Post time: 2013-08-16 06:22:45 |Show all posts
I have a Berserker and if I knew he would be that weak I would've chosen Behemoth.. But he had a decent ration to begin with plus he looked like a noble hero that would get me a girl in the castle so I chose him. He's fast but he's weak.. Most people choose Behemoth and Succubus..

Comments

Bboy_Omni  true,  Post time 2013-08-16 17:00:23

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killersharkk Post time: 2015-05-09 18:13:41 From the mobile phone |Show all posts
1 defence for each level for behemoth? what the heck!? no!

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killersharkk Post time: 2015-05-09 18:15:50 From the mobile phone |Show all posts
dogempire replied at 2013-07-01 10:15
And attack for Zerker isn't?

ofcourse not, attack is not even comparable to defence and u can see that by how expensive the defence is in the honor section

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Funds Post time: 2015-05-09 21:08:42 |Show all posts
uhh I hope you aren't taking out the +60 hp per level from the moth, otherwise he'd be really weak and the medal would be effectively pointless. I have no idea how fast a moth can move with the highest possible movement speed (since I don't have Hero Move buff on my rune and no HoW), but I know the Berserker moves a hell of a lot faster then him (PoB give uber movement speed when added with HoW). I'm not really sure about +1 def, since when you have a six shaman stacked succy (with best atk speed buffs) blasting away at a moth the chances for various effects to go off is increased drastically and with a frailty gem, make the defense pointless. I would say to increase hp from medal by 30, and resistance by half.

Taking out the spell cooldown could help with strong succys, but would also hinder those trying to do the seal and crusade. Accuracy would also help strong succys counter the evasion that the other two heros have with medals/inlaid gems. (I was going to say replace acc with force but just remembered they have their ability there)

Zerk medal levels = 1+ atk and 1.2+ evade per lvl

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